Dangerous Ideas
Deepak Chopra and Richard Dawkins
2013, November 9
The first 14 minutes don’t contain debate content — if you are short on time; forward to about 14 minutes.
This debate was to be about religion — I think. However, the debate confronts consciousness — two scientist are unable to agree. In fact they are just about completely opposed with each other.
Chopra maintains that consciousness is the basis for anything and everything. Chopra opens with that all beliefs are “a cover up for insecurity.” He admits that biological organisms are purpose driven — his view indicates that purpose directs even in the smallest of particles. His source is described as consciousness.
Dawkins maintains that consciousness evolves from complex organization and organic mechanisms — as described by Darwin. He denies that the universe is directed by purpose. Dawkins seems to believe that life and the universe just came to be — all on its own and then consciousness came to be — all on its own too. As for people, Dawkins essentially believes that organic substance evolved and then directive components emerged (DNA, brains, mimeme) and then the substance evolved into beings.
Let me know what you think.
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Need help or want to collaborate with me? Just e-mail me at thehunt4truth@yahoo.com
Thanks for visiting.
Eric
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the Hunt for Truth 
I found your comments as interesting as the topic.
I enjoy Chopra’s teaching and feel that if it enhances my beliefs then that cannot be a bad thing. I am of the opinion that science and spirituality make strange bedfellows and as such very seldom do they agree with each other.
Thanks once again for an enlightening read Eric. 🙂
Chopra is a gem. I feature some others that are spiritual scientist too. I myself love science and for me it was difficult to worship and pray with ease until I began to study the new science practitioners. A few that I feature are neither science not religious and those are the ones that are time consuming for me to investigate — Abraham Hicks, Bob Proctor and a few others. I still feel a little weary of posting about their work because people tend to grasp on too tightly to what they say. For most of the readers that come to my pages though it isn’t so that they are looking for a guru — most have spiritual teachers already. I feel more at ease here than at the former blog Suz — in fact this blog is a pleasure and that one was too much work for 1/2 the output. I even don’t use the moderate comments feature here. I did delete a few, but even those were not bizarre. I’m glad that you enjoy some of the posts. Your journey is a good one to share and I enjoy your stories about the family and your life.
I am pretty much a straight shooter, so I will throw my 2 cents in here and wait for hate! LOL!
I think people like DC and RD and many other “thinkers” are simply seeking a way out of dealing with God. Yep, I said it. Not “religion”, but God. Why is it, that we have scientific evidence that supports places and people of the Bible, with not 1 single person on planet earth able to disprove the account given of creation in the Bible, yet we still have millions of people trying to re-invent the wheel?
I submit that archeologists and paleontologists have already found massive evidence to back what the Bible describes, Nobody has been able to discount or disprove Christ and His death and resurrection, or anything else written in the Bible.
My take, ( ready for you Jesus haters) is that these fruit loops are simply trying to find some answers that are right in front of them. However, people who do not like to subject to accountability will fight to the death to say that some cosmic bullshit crashed and made this and that. Who made the cosmic energy? Nothing comes from nothing! With that, I could add dozens of other reasons why this whole earth is centered around the Lord Jesus. For time sake, I will just bait the hook here and let the unbelievers spew vitriol towards me, and thats ok. Remember, I did not write the Bible, I did not watch Jesus raise people from the dead, I am going on accounts from eyewitnesses that nobody can disprove.Until someone has evidence to the contrary, save it. By the way, I am an non-believer in atheists. They know God is there. They just want to ease their minds a little by pretending God can be erased. God can no t be erased any more than the sun can be darkened by you writing “darkness” on your kitchen window, Stop fighting it and look to God for answers. Much less faith required!
Tj
Thank you.
I hold the view that Jesus is creator. I’m sure also that facts enough support that the order of our cosmos begins with creation. The cosmos entirely follows laws of physics. I am not able to describe nor debate what came before the cosmos. I accept the term ‘supernatural’ for anything that cannot be explained by physics. I am sure that physics will better describe the emergence of atoms. However, I cannot place confidence in any present description of how atoms behave.
Dawkins clearly credits evolution from nothing as the source for our cosmos. He presents no science for the beginning of consciousness here and elsewhere he presents that there cannot be a science that explains before the beginning of atoms.
Chopra credits that there is intelligence first, before any creation; and that the forming of our universe stems from intelligence — and follows according to purpose. He credits evolution thereafter.
I trust that to the very best of my research knowledge that I am right to believe that science proves that evolution occurs in (my) universe. I cannot prove that my universe is EXACTLY the same as that of anyone else’s universe and in fact, I suspect that no two are exactly the same.
The science of evolution cannot explain the entire history of evolution from the first atom (hydrogen) to complex cells with DNA.
The evolution of our cosmos (the universe especially when it is understood as an ordered system) is rapidly progressing toward complete disorder. Is this as though the ultimate purpose is complete disorder — or is it …?
Again, you leave me without words! Excellent way of communicating. You really should start a blog or something! LOL!
You have a good point — about faith. I make faith complicated (for me). It works for me. I’m philosophical and I enjoy learning. Many a time though in earlier years, I watched a battle in my mind. My Christian Faith won every time. Jesus is Christ. I do not want to contribute to confusion. Science is a tool. Faith is necessary for my sanity and salvation. I always know that God extends to me what is necessary for my soul. This is not a promise that science can make. In the video, Dawkins makes a promise (also one that cannot happen) that science will discover and explain ‘mystical’ experiences “in terms of brains.” I do not hold my breath.
Chopra offers a different promise — that we will discover that our DNA changes by our practices — practice faith — faith strengthened (right in the DNA). I’ve posted at hints towards this coming discovery and it recently is being looked at in mainstream science. In a short time, new findings will unlock the mysteries of meditation/praise and uplifting activities and that we can change our DNA (and how it may pass on to future generations). I’m sure that the human Jesus’s DNA was divine. I’m sure also that new techniques will assist people that suffer from acute and chronic negativity. Its a must — they suffer needlessly and they practice negativity only because its got them by its momentum.
Please always feel appreciated here. Add comments as you like. I enjoy having them.
~ Eric
Another excellent post. What is your background or training in, if you do not mind me asking?
I don’t mind saying something about my background.
I was teaching at a vocational school for the past ten years. Before that I taught at a school that specialized in training for people with disabilities. Before that I worked with high school students and recent graduates of high school as a transition coordinator. Before that I was a migration manager for a computer services company and that led to consulting that I kept working at for almost ten years. I have a bachelors in Business Administration. I am a mentor and I participate in a couple of programs. My Christian training came from Sunday School but then mostly from my mentor. However, I have a wide variety of interests and I read. I’ve read lots of psychology and philosophy. I have a spiritual mentor and I also have many spiritual friends and I attend various meetings including at scientific and spiritual groups. I sometimes attend University lectures — but mostly learn online lately — although I am not a student. I learn a lot from blogs and that is only a recent development.
I am unemployed. Schools had over recruited special populations and especially from an Ability To Benefit (ABT) population. Funding cuts forced schools to cut staff and most schools cut full time staff and will not be replacing them with full time people in the foreseeable future. So, I am job hunting.
What interested you?
I have been a social work/mental health worker for 24 years. I grew up in a family full of addiction, domestic violence and suicide. I felt that if I had any chance to live a decent life, I needed to get some education in the area of social work, so I picked up a degree in social work, and began working with people that nobody else wanted to deal with. Expelled teens, severely developmentally disabled children and adults,and the like. I learned some valuable lessons both personally and professionally. I learned one particular key that stood out, and still works today, the idea that we, as people, have needs. Needs like good friends, financial security, and the need to use our gifts to help others. If we hold our gifts for our own benefit, there is no reward, but if we give to others the very needs we have , we will find both peace from God. For example, I have learned that when i am in need of a good friend, my first response is to go out and be a good friend to someone. If I needed hope, I found someone to encourage, and it brought me hope. If I was in financial trouble, I gave what I have to others. I believe we all have God given gifts, in addition to our learned skill sets. If we use these gifts, and not let them sit dormant , that we will have our needs met as a result. Some like to call this karma, I believe it is clearly sowing and reaping. We sow into the things we desire by helping others achieve their goals, and God honors this by supplying our need in that area.
I am now doing my own consulting, helping families in need, with mental health and familial problems, and in return have seen healing in my own life.
I rarely come across people who are so aware of how things work in this area, and ha d a feeling we must have some common background . I am currently looking for a partner to expand my services to hire a team of therapists to work with families under this premise and philosophy. One of giving, without expecting something in return. I also have taught very specialized populations and moved into administration for the last 10 years or so, running day programs, schools for expelled youth, and many more. I asked about you because I sensed that we have learned similar lessons on this journey…
Tj
Yes, needs — Feelings are everything–the language of needs. We feel and therefore we identify and look to meet the needs. That really sums it fast up… what you said is essential – give what you can of what you need… its the best way really — although some people won’t actually agree easily — and some may be hurt and holding tightly to victim issues — to tightly to resolve — and its a bad place to be if trying to do the giving what is needed work. It takes some getting help for them first — a mentor and maybe more even than that if they may manage.
Now, how is it that you can create a consulting practice at giving help to families?
That’s fascinating me.
I have to be brief — its been very busy with some things going on all over for the past couple of days. I did want to get back to you though Tj.
~ Eric .
I have always found it difficult to listen to Abraham Hicks since he is a ‘visitor’ to Esther and Jerry Hicks and imparts wisdom to them. But each person looks for wisdom in different places.
Thank you for your kind words about my blog Eric. I try to be real on it. 🙂 Sometimes my family is more quirky than real though lol
yes — I agree. Thanks. Its back to work on finding work for me. I’ll probably check this pace later. It must still be early there. Enjoy the day!
Good luck with that. It’s still early morning here. The doctor has given me another day off work so I’ll be spending it quietly. 🙂 You enjoy your day.
Hey Eric,
Just realized I did not answer the question you asked. I give away to those in need who cannot afford, and charge those who can, so things work out. I do not think anyone with needs that can be met by another, should be left handicapped in some area all because of the love of money….If that makes sense! LOL!
Tim